More on Cork RC Parish records

This posting is a follow up to previous postings relating to the “black hole” in availability of online church records for genealogical purposes, in Cork City and surrounds. I decided to write this post because I feel that people are confused by what is available  and where it can be found and what is not available online.

The chart below is my effort to untangle what is available online and what is not. I am focusing on the parishes of the deanery of Cork.


1836-1901* in the chart above, refers to Watergrasshill & Glenville as per the Watergrasshill parish website.
Glounthane** in the chart above, or “New Glanmire” as it is called on the National Library (NLI) of Ireland parish listing.
1775-1880*** includes earlier marriage banns according to the NLI.

From the chart, you can see that until the National Library of Ireland (NLI ) uploaded images in 2015,of the parishes listed, there was no online availability of baptisms and marriages for Ballincollig, Blackrock, Glanmire, Glounthane, Passage West, Ss Mary & Anne (North Parish) and St. Patrick’s RC Parishes. Even now, you have to wade through the online scanned records although these have been transcribed many years ago using tax payers’ money. But, as I mentioned in my previous post, it is wonderful to have the NLI images online despite the fact that they have already been transcribed by the Cork Ancestral Project which is sitting on these transcriptions (a long story).

Note, that the dates listed above, are approximate and do not allow for gaps in the records etc. Please check them.

Irishgen = which is a free site which has records for many of the parishes in the Diocese of Cork and Ross in Co. Cork and many other parishes in Ireland.

NLI = which provides images of microfilmed RC registers in their possession as well as maps showing the locations of the parishes.

CAP = Cork Ancestry Project based in the Cork Co. Library  does not provides any online access to the RC records which they transcribed many years ago.

FT= Frank Thompson (private individual) who voluntarily transcribed 5 parishes in South Cork.

“Own Parish website” refers to Watergrasshill Parish website.

MHC=  Mallow Heritage Centre which is a payong site which has primarily transcribed the RC records for the diocese of Cloyne in Co. Cork and a huge number of parishes in the rest of Ireland. It is a paying site and is now linking transcriptions to the images on the NLI website.

A few things which I should mention are that there is a hard copy of the baptismal and marriage index for Ss Mary  & Anne available to be inspected  onsite at the Cork Co. Library. There is also a bound copy of the transcriptions which  was completed voluntarily by Frank Thompson many years ago, available to be viewed in the Cork Co. Library.

Other points to be mentioned are that the images provided by are of the registers while the images provided by the National Library are of the microfilmed registers. The national Library of Ireland provides invaluable maps of the parishes too.

Also, it appears that there are no marriage records for the time frame for Watergrasshill, which is otherwise well served for baptismal records. It is edifying to see that the Watergrasshill Parish provide transcriptions of their baptismal records.

ADDENDUM (added 20th Jan 2016)

The following image is an article which appeared in the Cork News on the 7th September 2012. It relates to the church records which were transcribed by the Cork Ancestral Project which are still not online.

ADDENDUM (added 11th February 2016)

Findmypast (paying site)is to release a collection of 10 million indexed records from Irish Catholic parish registers, in March 2016. This release is based on transcriptions of the microfilm church records which the National Library of Ireland (NLI) put online in 2015 and will link to the image of the page on the register, on the NLI website.

ADDENDUM (added 2nd March 2016). has also transcribed the Catholic church records and now offers them online.




Posted in Cork Genealogy | Tagged , | 7 Comments

A Giant Step Forward for Irish Genealogy

I am so thrilled that the National Library of Ireland has seen fit to provide online, free access to the images of the microfilm of the Catholic Church records, which it has in its archives.

These online church records can now be accessed through Church Registers at NLI.

While these records are not a complete set of records for several (if not many) parishes, they represent a huge step forward. We can now see images of the actual pages of the registers for parishes which are provided as transcriptions by (paying site) which we could not see prior to this. provides images of registers to complement its transcriptions for the more recently transcribed parishes but not for those done many years ago (long story).

Some parishes in Ireland, for example the records for the “black hole” in Cork City, are now online. As a campaigner over many years to get these (Cork) transcribed records online (long story), I am delighted to see that the NLI has bypassed the ongoing and petty blockages in providing these to the global diaspora.

It is wonderful to see records in their original context. The joy in seeing an image of the actual record, no matter how faded or illegible cannot be replaced, by careful transcription. It is just a shame that the tax payers’ money was not better spent over the years. Duplication, competition and several disparate online sources for the Catholic Church records is not helpful to the amateur genealogist. Hopefully, petty politics and religious interests can now be put aside as we see an openness emerging from the years of secrecy and obfuscation relating to records pertaining to Irish genealogy.

As I said this is a huge step forward. Genealogists everywhere can combine all the sources mentioned above, to maximize the benefit for their own research. Thank you NLI!

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Why We Need Gedmatch!

I don’t blog often but I felt that I needed to get the following off my chest, so to speak.

There are three main autosomal DNA testing companies for genetic genealogy: AncestryDNA, 23&Me and Family Tree DNA. is a free website where people who tested with any of the three companies mentioned above, can upload their autosomal DNA results. It offers tools for analysing DNA matches.

Upto 2015, AncestryDNA did not mail kits to Ireland (or the UK) so people in Ireland tested with Family Tree DNA or 23&Me. As Family Tree DNA uses cheek swabs unlike 23&Me which uses saliva, it worked out cheaper to mail kits to Family Tree DNA rather than to 23&Me so I suspect more Irish people used Family Tree DNA than 23&Me, unless they tested for medical reasons. AncestryDNA and 23&Me have large autosomal databases while Family Tree DNA’s database is significantly smaller. However, figures have been presented  at the WDYTYA in Birmingham  in 2015, to suggest that about 90% of 23&Me’s testees and about 99% of’s testees are based in the USA while just 70% of Family Tree DNA’s testees are based there. So, there are advantages and disadvantages in all three companies depending on your requirements. Note, these figures will change with time!

Several members of my family, including my father, who is now deceased have done autosomal DNA testing with Family Tree DNA. I also know many Cork people who have tested with Family Tree DNA. This year, I was lucky to be given a complimentary AncestryDNA kit when the company launched its sales in Ireland so I now have tested with both Famly Tree DNA and AncestryDNA.

In order to see which of my matches on AncestryDNA also match my late father, I have to try to get these matches to upload to as retesting my father with AncestryDNA is not an option. Also, paper trails are not enough to help analyse these matches especially as my father’s maternal side, albeit Irish (Co. Cork), is largely unknown. Secondly, it is DNA testing and is not meant to rely on paper trail analysis only! There is no chromosome browser or information on the number of centiMorgans involved in the matches on AncestryDNA so I cannot analyse the data involved. It is like a black box!

On Family Tree DNA, I can see which people have matches in common with me (ICW) and I can see if they match each other (matrix) but I cannot triangulate these matches to check: if A matches B and C on one segment of a chromosome, that A also matches C on the same segment of chromosome. This is a vital component for analysing matches to see if there is a common ancestral line for A, B and C.

I have to state that I don’t have any experience of 23& Me to add to the above comments.

Recently, I couldn’t convince someone to upload their autosomal DNA from Family Tree DNA to so I paid the $39 for someone of interest to me, who had tested with, to transfer his results to Family Tree DNA. This helped me to see if the two people of interest to me matched each other. In fact they didn’t but now I know.

Recently,  I convinced an adoptee, who had tested with to upload to This confirmed that he matches me on my paternal line and also my maternal line, something I couldn’t tell without using a chromosome browser and triangulation facilities. So, this match which predicted to be a third cousin is probably not quite as close as predicted, given that we match on both sides of my family. It really helped the adoptee to know more about his matches with me and other members of my family.

Another case which comes to mind,  involves a match which I have on I convinced the person who matches me, to upload to and now I can see that that person matches me on both my maternal and paternal lines. Now I want to know if this person matches someone else on Family Tree DNA who matches me but I can’t convince that person to upload their results to so I am trying to get the person who has tested with to transfer their data to Family Tree DNA (for $39) as well as having convinced them to upload to

Yet another match of mine on AncestryDNA will not communicate and this match is in common with two of us who are struggling to identify certain ancestral lines. We know the match is in common with us as we invited each other to see each other’s results. This is useful on AncestryDNA but I imagine it is not widely used. If we could see our matches with this person of interest, on Gedmatch, we could learn a lot more our matches. It is frustrating!

So, in general, is a free “neutral” site with useful analysis tools for autosomal DNA results. Gedmatch. com is free but does need support in the form of donations. I would encourage as many people as possible to upload their autosomal DNA to Gedmatch.

Posted in DNA | Tagged , , , ,

Personal DNA Success Story

People who know me well, know that I have been searching for my father’s ancestry since 1997. It has been a long road, full of ups and downs, dead ends and eventually success.

It all started after my mother died in 1995. My Dad and I had some heart to heart chats  during our grieving for my mother, his wife. My Dad had been fostered as a baby in Cork City, Ireland in 1926.  My father had never been willing to talk about his biological family. It had been a mystery to me.  In 1995 I learned that my Dad had no idea who his biological family were and that he had always wanted to find out and ultimately discover who he was.

He was brought up by a kind family at Penrose Square (now demolished), in the heart of Cork City. My Dad was Gerard on his baptismal certificate, obtained from Ss Peter and Paul Church, and his mother was named as Ellen Murphy. No father’s name was provided at the baptism and the sponsors were members of the foster family. The church register, which I have subsequently seen, states that he was “illegitimate”. The other document which my father had, was his birth certificate, on which his father’s name was given as Daniel Shea and his mother’s name was given as Ellen Murphy. The civil birth certificate implied that Daniel and Ellen were a married couple when my father was born and that my father had in fact been born at Penrose Square, Cork City. My father assumed that the information on this certificate was made up by the foster family to cover up the truth of my father’s birth. The fact that my Dad’s birth was registered three months after his birth indicates that there may have been a delay in deciding what to put on the certificate. My father always said that his foster family would “lie to the state but they wouldn’t lie to the church”. By this, he meant that the foster family were very “religious” (Roman Catholic) and fearful of the Catholic Church but they didn’t feel the same way about the state! My father did believe that his mother was actually named Ellen Murphy as this name appeared on his baptismal record and his civil birth record.

While my father was a young child, he was called Gerard Ryan, Ryan being the surname of the foster family. It was only when he went to secondary school, when he had to produce his birth certificate, that he discovered his father’s surname, was Shea. So, he became Gerard Shea and later Gerard O’Shea as, like most Sheas, he added the  O’ to Shea. My father told me, that as an adult, he tried to find out who he was but he had no way of doing so. The foster family were tight lipped and would not willingly reveal anything about my father’s biological family. My father did not know anything about his parents or ancestry.

My father wasn’t convinced that he was really an O’Shea on his paternal line…maybe the name was a complete fabrication? My father did have some clues which he had apparently gleaned from his foster family. He had a notion that his father was some kind of “gentleman farmer” and that his mother’s family had longevity in their family. He had been told at an early age, when he asked about his parents that “they were dead”. Another story my Dad had was that his father had joined the Australian navy.

Two years after my mother died in 1995, my father became ill and while he was recuperating after surgery, in a nursing home in Cork, I spent some time in the Cork City library trying to find answers to his question “who am I”. In 1997, with very few (if any) online genealogical records, I perused the local Co. Cork directories looking for something which might fit what my father knew. In one of the directories, I found a Luke Shea in South Cork in the 1800s, who was a “gentleman farmer” and I thought I had hit the jackpot. I relayed this information to my Dad when I visited him in the nursing home, that day. We were excited. It was the first lead I had found. Over the next several years we explored this lead, making contact with descendants of this Shea family, who lived outside Ireland. However, we could not find a Daniel Shea in this Shea/O’Shea family. But, then again, how did we know if my father’s father was really Daniel Shea. We compared height and build, hair and eye colour and other genetic traits between my Dad and a potential half sibling. We studied photographs of family members looking for similarities.

My Dad and I enjoyed some “field trips” together searching for more information to help with our research. On one such outing, I can remember that we got wet in the rain and ended up in a pub, next to an open fire, warming up over hot coffee. My Dad, who was retired also made trips on his own. He went to the National Library in Dublin and other repositories. In his retirement, he found a new interest. We made trips to the Registry of Deeds, National Archives and other repositories building up knowledge of the Shea family which we thought was ours.

My Dad and a potential half brother did get to meet up in a small town in the west coast of the USA in 2000. At this stage, my father was convinced he had found his family and we continued to spend time delving into their family history, which actually was very interesting, given that they had been big landowners in the 1800s. To cut a long story short, my father and his potential half brother did a sibship test in 2002 but the results were vague and we discarded them as unreliable.

I became aware of y-chromosome DNA testing and in 2003, my Dad did a yDNA test with Family Tree DNA. At that time it was a 25 marker test. Only one other O’Shea, who lived in the USA, had tested with Family Tree DNA at that time, and he and my Dad did not match each other. Shortly afterwards, by co-incidence, an O’Shea man from Cork tested and matched my Dad 25 markers out of 25. We didn’t understand what this match meant in terms of relatedness. This O’Shea man who matched my Dad had an extensive family tree which did not seem to have any connection with the other O’Shea family we had found and still believed was “ours”.

Over time, another O’Shea from Cork did a yDNA test and he also matched my Dad and the other O’Shea. By late 2004,  all three had upgraded to 37 markers and there were a few mutational differences in their respective results. Yet, they were close matches. Over time the O’Shea yDNA Project evolved and there is a subgroup of O’Sheas in it, with strong affiliations with NW Co. Cork, which includes my Dad.

My father died unexpectedly in December 2004. I was devastated but felt my Dad had known that he was an O’Shea before he died. yDNA had confirmed that his paternal line was Shea/O’Shea. It took me a long time to get a member of the O’Shea family, to whom we had originally thought we were related (but had no solid evidence to back this up), to do a yDNA test. This lack of definitive evidence had niggled at me but when my Dad was alive I couldn’t face up to it as my Dad thought he had found his family. When the yDNA test results came back for this O’Shea, I was shocked to learn that there was no yDNA match. My Dad and the descendant of the 19th century landowning O’Shea family were NOT related on the paternal line. I faced the cold reality and was glad my Dad had not had to cope with the enormous disappointment that we had failed to find his close O’Shea family. On the positive side, I did know he was an O’Shea and that he was part of the NW Cork O’Shea group in our O’Shea yDNA Project.

Over time, I kept trying to establish a paper trail relating to my father’s fostering.  I  looked for information in the Board of Health and Public Assistance  records, held in the Cork Archives. These records can contain information about children who were “boarded out” by the Health Board. Unfortunately, the volume relating to 1926 (the year of my father’s birth) was not extant. The Cork Archives suggested that Department  of Local Government and Public Health reports on inspection of foster homes might be in the National Archives. I contacted the National Archives but was told that there were a lot of records which might include such material but they were not accessible as they weren’t catalogued.

In my search, I also contacted Barnardos but they said that they only deal with children who grew up in institutions. They directed me to the Cork Fostering and Adoption Service section of the HSE but they could find nothing useful for me in their “Boarded Out records”. I also contacted the Records Management Unit of the Department of Health and Children, Hawkins House, Dublin. They were able to check their Access of Institutional and Related Records (AIRR) database which are an index of all children in the care of the state, including institutions and boarded out children (from the 1930s to the 1980s).

I also gathered all the birth, marriage and death data I could, on men with the name of Daniel Shea/O’Shea who lived in the area from which my Dad’s yDNA matches originated. yDNA tests were upgraded to 67 markers and still it was impossible to tell which particular family was closest to mine. yDNA eliminated many O’Shea lines but so many NW Co. Cork  O’Sheas were close matches to my Dad at 67 markers. What about all the other O’Sheas who hadn’t tested! I worked on paper trails, with much help from the two O’Sheas who matched my Dad originally back in 2003. I kept gathering information on potential Daniel O’Sheas hoping that my father’s father was a Daniel as well as a NW Cork O’Shea. My task seemed endless.

With the advent of Family Finder, an autosomal DNA test which is able to identify matches an all ancestral lines up to about 5th cousin, I decided to try this test. As my Dad’s DNA sample was limited, I did the test myself in 2012 and set about investigating my matches, in the hope of finding matches on my grandfather’s (or grandmother’s) ancestral lines. I had a problem deciding which side of my ancestry the matches were on. My mother was Welsh so that helped a bit in separating out the matches. However, many people whom I matched randomly had ancestry which included Ireland and Wales or didn’t know where in Ireland their ancestors came from. Also, these “random” matches were not close matches and I had no real paper trail to work with for my paternal side of the family. I then started to recruit people who had matched my Dad on yDNA to do autosomal DNA testing.  Lo and behold, in 2013, I struck the jackpot. I got a “first to second” cousin match with one of them.

In 2013, I also managed to get my Dad’s remaining DNA sample used for Family Finder with the help of Bennett Greenspan, CEO of Family Tree DNA. This, combined with other targeted autosomal DNA tests, enabled me to conclude who my father’s father was. Finally, I had closure on this side of my research. I now knew my Dad’s paternal line and I have a family tree for “my” O’Sheas. I am just sorry that my Dad did not live long enough to enjoy it.

Now my search is on for my father’s mother. This is proving difficult but armed with my DNA tools, I am confident that I will succeed.

Posted in Uncategorized | 12 Comments

Birth and Baptismal Records for Co. Cork

I was recently asked if it was easy to locate a person in Co. Cork, if you had their exact date of birth in 1830. My answer was: “No, it is not easy.”

Why did I say this? Well, civil records started generally in Ireland in 1864 so the church records are all you have to go on up to then except for Church of Ireland marriages which were registered from 1845 onwards. (Mormon site) has the Irish Civil Records Index from 1864 to 1958. Update!!! has an enhanced civil records index. [updated 4th July 2014]

Church Records for Cork are available on [paying site] and [free].

The former link is to the Mallow Heritage Centre (online) which has the Roman Catholic church records for the Diocese of Cloyne. It also has Church of Ireland records. You have to pay for each record but you can search for free, once you register. This site lists the parishes for which it has records. Of course, some parish records didn’t start till after 1830!

The second link is to and it has free church records for South, South West Cork and North West Cork (where the Catholic Parish is actually in the Diocese of Kerry). Availability of records is listed on the site…note it is not a complete set of records. It does have records for some of Cork City too but some areas of the city are excluded. That is another story (Sin scéal eile)!

So, searching for a person by date of birth in 1830, is not straightforward. You might be lucky but you would need to know the parents’ names to know if you have found the right person or not. Knowing the location helps but often people who are researching do not know this. Using land records such as the Tithe Applotments (1820s-1830s) and Griffith’s Valuation (1850s) can help locate the surname or first name-surname combinations. Later, the 1901 and 1911 Censuses can help.

Posted in Cork Genealogy | Tagged , , | 8 Comments

DNA, Paper Trails and Family Story

In the past ten years, I have spent a lot of time dealing with DNA results relating to Family History research. I have also done a lot of traditional genealogy. I have tended to favour DNA or, as it is now called “Genetic Genealogy” as it can help to answer questions which the traditional paper trail research cannot answer. Traditional genealogical research can be restricted by absence of records or lack of access to existing records or just not knowing where to start. So, we turn to DNA to break down “brick walls” in our research.

DNA (Genetic Genealogy) can give information on paternal lines, maternal lines and recent family relationships. I have found it to be a wonderful asset in my research and it is offering more and more as the science and technology evolves. However, it often relies on a genealogical paper trail to interpret and make sense of the results.

Even the paper trail is not the full story!

I was reminded of this last night when I looked at the census records for my great great great grandfather Lewis Jenkins. I knew that he was born near Swansea in 1796 and that his grandson, also called Lewis Jenkins had a provisions store in a small mining village in the Rhondda Valley in Wales. However, I had not paid much attention to the fact that Lewis Jenkins, my great great great grandfather had been a collier in the mining village. His wife had died after a few years of marriage. His son William was a coalminer in the 1851 Census, a “Coalminer and Occupier of 4 acres” in the 1861 Census. He was a labourer in 1871 but by 1881, he was a “Farmer”. William died, aged 67 in 1894, of “chronic bronchitis and emphysemia and exhaustion”. William’s son, Lewis was a Grocer’s Assistant in the 1881 Census and married the Grocer’s daughter in 1888. In the 1891 Census, Lewis was in charge of the Grocer’s Shop.

Jenkins shop

The real story is the day to day life of the family, of which the paper trail is a mere chronological listing. DNA provides a glimpse at the molecular level as an aid to filling in gaps. Photos, diaries, family lore etc. help to flesh out the clinical analysis. Let us not forget this.

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Successful Genetic Genealogy Ireland Conference 2013

The Genetic Genealogy Ireland Conference 2013(GGI Conference 2013), held in Dublin, was very successful. Here is a link to videos of the excellent lectures, which were given by the presenters over the three days.

Family Tree DNA had a stall at the conference and ISOGG volunteers worked hard dealing with enquiries. I hope to see more DNA testing in Ireland as a result of the highlighting the benefits of genetic genealogy in family history.

Family Tree DNA stall at GGI Conference

Family Tree DNA at GGI 2013

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